Dave’s Rants

23 Responses to “RateMyTeachers.ie Myths?”  

1. 1 Michael Hussey May 16th, 2005 at 2:31 pm

   Part of the mission of RateMyTeachers is to help students learn to take responsibility for, and “own” their educations. As the consumers of education, it is your right (and the responsible thing to do) to hold your educators responsible.

   For too long, education has been viewed as a public good that is bestowed upon the ignorant masses for their own well-being, in spite of themselves. Education is not a gift - it is paid for both with tax dollars and with hidden costs (what is the cost of a lost education?). To determine the true cost of your education, ask yourself “what am I giving up to be here?” What else could I be doing with my time besides this? And since I value my education over the alternative, what do I want to gain from it.”

   Once those goals are defined, and you are determined to achieve them, it is your right to hold your educators responsible to a standard of excellence that is necessary for you to reach that goal. Any teacher who cares about their students will agree with this sentiment.

2. 2 Tobniesh May 16th, 2005 at 8:10 pm

   As a student, I think RateMyTeachers is a disgrace. Who are students to question the quality of a teacher? Teaching is their job and if they are not good at it, it should be dealt with in private. If that is not possible, how does giving public and anonymous criticism help the teacher or student? Teachers may lose disciplinary control of their students because there will be a sense of the students being in control, smiling in class at the teacher as if to say “now everyone knows what I think of you”. Respect for authority disappears which is at the detriment of students. To the people who agree with this website - how would you feel if colleagues, customers or anyone who sees you working, could anonymously criticise your work in public even though you’re doing your best? Most teachers do actually care about students. Education Departments in different countries could open forums for students to complain about teachers in private, if they don’t, it’s not right to criticise the teachers in public. Anyway most students are too young and immature to understand that teachers are helping them.

3. 3 Dave May 16th, 2005 at 9:38 pm

   Well Michael, students are more than entitiled to comment on their teachers. I know which one’s of my teachers were good and which one’s weren’t. It wasn’t to hard to figure out to be honest. In a complete shock the good teachers got good performance from their students and the poor ones didn’t. What’s so hard to understand about that. I could even figure that out when I was in national school.

   And in your response to my agreement with the website there is a huge difference, in my job I’m subject to performance review on an annual basis, along with my salary being linked to performance. A teacher’s salary is simply based on time spent teaching. It has no relation to performance.

   The teachers and their unions have stood in the way of league tables and other performance metrics so I can’t see why they are shocked when the service in demand is created by the market.

4. 4 Joe May 16th, 2005 at 9:42 pm

   “Who are students to question the quality of a teacher? …. Anyway most students are too young and immature to understand that teachers are helping them.”

   It is precisely those insulting and ignorant comments that make the ratemyteachers site so popular - and dare I say it, so effective. Students are in a unique position to accurately evaluate the effectivness of a teacher in a classroom environment. Not all students get it right, but we can still learn a lot from listening to what they have to say.

   Most teachers are honest, hard-working and dedicated individuals who deserve support and praise. It is not difficult to recognise those teachers on the ratemyteachers site by the respectful and appreciative comments placed there by their students. It is also not difficult to recognise those teachers who would be much better off in a profession more suited to their interests and abilities.

   Whatever official system is in place at the moment to rate teachers is worthless, as many teachers who are incompetent or unsuitable are allowed to continue with their ill-chosen profession. The damage that they do to the next generation of school leavers is difficult to measure, but it is not difficult to see how ineffective, bullying or spiteful teachers do little to help children reach their potential.

   While I am not overly excited about the ratemyteachers site, and I recognise that it is open to abuse, it is still the closest thing to an honest appraisal that exists. Ideally, the education system would counter it with a genuine feedback system, but that will never happen while people are opposed to the concept of young adults expressing their opinions.

5. 5 aileen maguire May 16th, 2005 at 11:12 pm

   there is some doubt as to the sincerity of the rate my teachers site.students are again being exploited into believing that a money making organisation has their education as an interest. beware students! you could do a lot worse than know that the teachers with whom you spend a lot of your time have your interests at heart.dont be side tracked by the internet site. teachers are on your side.believe it and know it!

6. 6 Joe May 17th, 2005 at 2:03 am

   Quote: “teachers are on your side.believe it and know it!”

   Some are, some aren’t. Some care, some just need the paycheck to pay their mortgage. Children/teenagers are more aware of and responsive to those who genuinely care about them than some people would like us to believe.

   The ratemyteachers site allows students to voluntarily rate teachers without threat or interference. Simple. Do the people who run the site make advertising money from their efforts? I would assume so. And why not! I know that they don’t charge students for the service.

   All teachers that I have known make money from teaching students. Based on that fact (and using the “money” argument in a previous comment), should we also doubt “the sincerity” of these teachers? Some of the better performing schools are fee-paying schools. Again, to take the argument above, should we be concerned that “students are again being exploited into believing that a money making organisation has their education as an interest”? That question may sound odd, but the argument in Aileen’s comment made a clear linkage between making money from students participation and the sincerity of intent.

   I started out being somewhat indifferent to the site, but as I hear more arguments from people who are against it, I am beginning to see that the site has some merit. My initial caution about the possibility of poor advice from a self-serving website is giving way to a belief that the ratemyteachers site just presents something that some teachers are scared of:- the opinions of students.

   I have noted a few things from the discussions about the ratemyteachers site over the past weeks.

   1. Many of the people who criticise ‘ratemyteachers’ are teachers, yet few will admit to having actually visited the site. Perhaps, something to do with not wanting students to know that their opinions have been heard?
   2. Teachers who have received good ratings tend to feel that the site is fine. Teachers who have received lesser ratings are concerned about it for all kinds of reasons.
   3. The arguments against the site are becoming more and more outlandish. The basic argument against students rating teachers is being replaced with suggestions that the site is somehow using nefarious means to exploit students and steal their [thoughts/identities/money/souls] (Choose one of the above to suit your particular paranoia).

7. 7 Tobniesh May 17th, 2005 at 10:07 am

   Whether you have performance review or not is irrelevant - this is
   done in private and members of the public have no public outlet for criticising your work. So the problem is with education departments who do not allow students the opportunity to complain about standards of teachers. If teachers are inadequate, that doesn’t mean it’s ok to criticise them anonymously in public.

   Take this scenario: A student is a neighbour of a teacher at his/her
   school but is not taught by that teacher. The student doesn’t like the person as a neighbour so they can make up a story about being hit by them in class and remain anonymous by doing so. This scenario is possible and while this is the case, the website is disgraceful. If students feel strongly, good or bad, about teachers then they should have the courage of their convictions to reveal their identity. If they don’t want to do that, then they shouldn’t make comments. You’re missing my point.

8. 8 Joe May 17th, 2005 at 11:54 pm

   Tobniesh, I assume that you are at least partly familiar with the technology and laws that allow the ‘ratemyteachers’ site to be run in the first place. The scenario that you mention can equally apply to a student setting up his own site, hosted on a server located in the United States (or similar), and dedicated to giving his “opinion” on his neighbour/teacher.

   The internet is littered with sites that present testament against companies and individuals on various grounds. While those servers are located in the United States, they are covered by their laws relating to free speech. When comment is deemed to have crossed their interpretation of legitimate free speech - for example threats of violence or self-harm - other US laws are used to intervene. There is nothing to stop someone from publicly rating your work performance, or mine, or anyone elses in this manner.

   I suggest that the “point” that you are making is selective, so as to imply that a public and anonymous critique of a teacher’s performance by a student is wrong; simply because the ratings are done by students and those rated are teachers.

   Many would disagree with you and argue that students and parents are entitled to know which teachers/schools are going to provide the best education for their children. If you knew that your child’s Math teacher was universally rated as “useless”, wouldn’t you at least consider options to increase your child’s chances of passing their Math exams? If you learn that a certain teacher is rated as “a bully” by most of his students, would you not consider taking action to ensure that your child was safe and didn’t feel intimidated within his classroom environment? I think you would. But within the existing educational system, the “staffroom angel”/”classroom devil” teacher continues on undetected… well, at least until the ratemyteachers site came along. It is not perfect, but it is better than what has gone before.

   Regarding your assertion that students should reveal their identity, I find it difficult to believe that you could not come up with at least two or three good reasons why a student would be foolish to do so. Give young people some credit.

9. 9 dervlab May 18th, 2005 at 5:42 pm

   There are some difficult philosophical questions associated with the rights of students and rights of teachers … but luckily this site is nice and simple. It is just plain wrong. Posting anonymous comments about someone on the internet (positive or negative) is just plain wrong. The question of teacher appraisals, league tables, student feedback are all separate issues. Just because this kind of thing goes on all the time on the Internet doesn’t make it right. If you don’t believe in the principles of right and wrong you have no place discussing education.

10. 10 Dave May 18th, 2005 at 6:57 pm

    If you don’t believe in the principles of right and wrong you have no place discussing education.

    The thing is that no matter how narrow the Irish education is it should have taught you that there are no universal rights and wrongs simply shades of grey. Who decided that posting anonymous comments about people is automatically wrong. Do you think all those sites out there spewing vitriol at George Bush are wrong?

    Also dervlab, who are you to tell me what I can or can’t discuss. I may live in a backward illiberal country like Ireland but I’ll be damned if I don’t discuss what I want.

11. 11 Joe May 18th, 2005 at 7:00 pm

    Quote from dervlab: “It is just plain wrong.”

    Great, someone who “just knows” things. The problem with that kind of argument is that someone is likely to come along and say that YOU are “just plain wrong”. Their statement is just as valid as yours - and just as meaningful.

    Quote from dervlab: “If you don’t believe in the principles of right and wrong you have no place discussing education.”

    Don’t you also mean… If we don’t agree with YOUR ideas of right and wrong, then we have no business discussing education?

    You will have to do a whole lot better than the “me right, you wrong” approach if you are to get your point across.

    Allowing women to vote was also considered by many to be “just plain wrong”. A few countries still hold that view. Are they right? Allowing non-white people to share the same public transport with whites was also considered “just plain wrong” by many at one time. Were they right?

    I don’t consider the “just plain wrong”, or the “wrong because it is” arguments to be of any value. They sound like a teacher who can’t be bothered thinking of a meaningful answer for her class…. or maybe a child who can’t articulate their feelings about something they feel is “just plain wrong”.

    As I indicated before, I do see shortcomings with the ratemyteachers site, but I have not heard one coherent or logical argument made as to why it should not be there. Maybe there is none.

12. 12 dervlab May 20th, 2005 at 3:56 pm

    I don’t “just know things” - but I do just know this thing. Are you suggesting that there is never a straightforward right and wrong? What a complicated world you must live in - how do you ever make decisions about what to do? Take for example, if I reverse over your cat on purpose for the heck of it. How can I be in the wrong? Some cultures consider cats vermin, others may eat them, others may hold them sacred. What the hell would any of that matter if your cat is lying dead on the street. In the social context in which we all live, work and play, nobody should anonymously slag off someone else. There is no need to look for more complex arguements against this site (links with porn, kids being exploited by business or whatever) - I couldn’t care less about that stuff. This site is here to stay I guess, so we will all have to learn to live with it, but I think it is sad that many adults do not see a problem with it.

13. 13 Dave May 20th, 2005 at 4:00 pm

    Why exactly are you pushing the myth that RateMyTeachers is linked with porn? My whole post is about how the links are non-existanct and how nobody has shown any evidence to the contrary.

14. 14 dervlab May 20th, 2005 at 5:07 pm

    Why am I pushing what now?? Dave, if you want to be opiniated that is lovely for you, but opinions of people who can rant AND listen to what others are actually saying are more interesting. I have in no way “pushed” a link with porn! If fact your piece was the first time I have ever heard of this supposed link. My point is that I believe the site is morally wrong per se … and the site and what it promotes would not be any more or less wrong if the corporation behind it was elsewhere promoting heroine to pre-schoolers.

15. 15 Joe May 22nd, 2005 at 1:53 am

    Dervlab, your reply to me had a lot to do with cats, but little to do with the issue being discussed. The point being made was that you neither hold nor practice what you called your “principles of right and wrong”. These “principles” that you refered to are in reality your opinions, likes and dislikes. It is somewhat arrogant of you to suggest that other should simply agree with you because you state it as one of your “principles” of wrong. We all have a sense of right and wrong, but thankfully we tolerate other’s individualism.

    I won’t bother with your argument about reversing over a cat “on purpose for the heck of it”. I’m sure, on reflection, you will realise that is not the most sensible thing you have ever written.

    In your reply to Dave, you make a statement that ends with the lines: “… the site and what it promotes would not be any more or less wrong if the corporation behind it was elsewhere promoting heroine to pre-schoolers.” Isn’t it strange that I would think the site would be much, much more dangerous if it “promoted” heroine (heroin) to pre-schoolers? Your so-called principles of right and wrong doesn’t make the distinction? As you said to me “what a complicated world you must live in”.

16. 16 dervlab May 23rd, 2005 at 2:54 pm

    Joe, your “reply” had a lot to do with _trying_ to sound smart, but has little substance. It seems it’s okay for you to use an analogy, but not anyone else.
    Tolerating individualism is great of course, but individual rights which impact others cannot be exercised with impunity. No doubt there are still people who believe women shouldn’t vote and they of course are entitled to their opinion, but if they try to actually stop women voting then they are impinging on other people’s rights. Of course students have a right to an education and a right to appraise their teachers. But this site is not the way to do it - because it is public for the teachers and anonymous for the students and therefore too open to abuse.
    As for your closing paragraph, Joe (and to explain the main reason why I put reply in quotes at the start) .. I just find it laughable that you actually quote my words and still obviously didn’t read them properly. In the interest of brevity, let me simply highlight the word ELSEWHERE for you and suggest that you question whether your own retort was the “most sensible thing you have ever written”.
    And as for your quite remarkable statement that I “neither hold nor practice” principles of right and wrong … well, taken in the context of your demonstrated inability to assimilate information, I can safely say that my morals don’t feel too compromised.

17. 17 Joe May 23rd, 2005 at 9:06 pm

    Dervlab, you seem to have been stung into replying with just a little more than your simple right and wrong assertions this time - and that is good. But unfortunately, you seem more confused and angry than ever. It appears that your attempt to analyse your original knee-jerk reaction to the ratemyteachers site has caused you more than a little trouble, as is evident in the tone of your reply.

    Using an analogy is fine when it makes some sense and advances your argument. My examples were chosen to illustrate how something that is universally deemed right can become universally accepted as wrong, and vice versa. Your “analogy” stated: “…if I reverse over your cat on purpose for the heck of it. How can I be in the wrong? Some cultures consider cats vermin, others may eat them…”. You sure have been visiting some strange comment boards if you have found people to engage with you on that line of argument.

    I don’t believe that allowing students a means to publicly voice opinions on those who provide their education is wrong. Anonymity is essential to avoid a situation where those children become the victims of a teacher intent on revenge. I have witnessed children getting a very difficult time from teachers for simply voicing reasonable and useful opinions. Until I see a better means of allowing this type of feedback on our education system, I will hold to my view that the site is worthwhile.

    You may also read and re-read your own statement on heroin as often as you like, but the meaning is clear. You did say that the “site” (which I use generically to refer to the site and it’s owners) “…and what it promotes would not be any more or less wrong if the corporation behind it was elsewhere promoting heroine to pre-schoolers”. The “elsewhere” is hardly necessary in a reply, as you are clearly linking their conduct “elsewhere” to the site in question. Why am I spelling that out for you… anyway…

    Someone who has hit themselves over the head with such a whopping contradiction to their previous high moral statements might be inclined to wait for their dizziness to calm down before replying. Not our dervlab apparently. On the upside, with a reply like that, no one is going to accuse you of “trying to sound smart”.

18. 18 dervlab May 23rd, 2005 at 9:37 pm

    Joe, do you always so blatantly miss the point? I am specifically separating (1) this site and (2) whatever the owners get up to elsewhere. Re-read the original rather than your ridiculous selective word-smithing and see what was said. It is like Dave’s comments at the outset, “I wouldn’t really be bothered if the site owners ate babies for breakfast as long as the site was good quality”. I take the opposite view of the site, but agree that the merits or demerits of the site have nothing to do with what the owners get up the elsewhere.
    Your aggressive retorts are just pathetic.

19. 19 Joe May 23rd, 2005 at 11:34 pm

    Dervlab quote: “I am specifically separating (1) this site and (2) whatever the owners get up to elsewhere”. How convenient for you. You view students adding anonymous feedback on their teachers as “just plain wrong”. But if the same site that provides the service was run by people pedalling hard drugs to “pre-schoolers”, you wouldn’t see it as “any less wrong”. At the risk of repeating myself, the concept of drug pushers also providing ANY such feedback service to children would be viewed as considerably more wrong by most people. I certainly wouldn’t defend the site in any form if it were so connected.

    You see, when you make wild and intemperate statements in reaction to those who simply disagree with your so-called “principles of right and wrong”, you risk saying something that you may regret. To continue and try to justify those intemperate statements simply makes you seem - again, to use one of your own words - “pathetic”.

    Dervlab, debating with you must be the comment board equivalent of pulling the legs of a live fly. Since I am not a cruel person, I shall leave you, your “principles”, contradictions, cats, and heroin(e) (analogies?) alone.

    Oh, I just can’t resist one last correction for you. Dave didn’t arrogantly pontificate on so-called “principles of right and wrong”, so his argument is tenable. If he had dismissed you as “just plain wrong”, based on so-called “principles of right and wrong” then you would have an argument. He also didn’t tell you that “you have no place discussing education” if you don’t fall in line with his sense of right and wrong.

    Now, since you seem like the type of lady who needs to have the last word, I will invite you to response without any further reply from me. You have already indicated that you are of a particularly sensitive disposition in claiming that my replies to you were “aggressive”. I have no wish to add any more to the burden of your “principles of right and wrong”, nor do I care to impinge any further on your efforts to dictate those principles to the masses by means of the Internet. Bye Bye!

20. 20 Joe May 24th, 2005 at 1:41 am

    Correction to copy and paste error, and in the interests of accuracy, the first paragraph in my last reply should read:

    Dervlab quote: “I am specifically separating (1) this site and (2) whatever the owners get up to elsewhere”. How convenient for you. You view students adding anonymous feedback on their teachers as “just plain wrong”. But if the same site that provides the service was run by people pedalling hard drugs to “pre-schoolers”, you wouldn’t see it as “any more or less wrong”. At the risk of repeating myself, the concept of drug pushers also providing ANY such feedback service to children would be viewed as considerably more wrong by most people. I certainly wouldn’t defend the site in any form if it were so connected.

    (Rest of reply, as above)

21. 21 dervlab May 24th, 2005 at 10:06 am

    If this is getting tedious for me, then it must be doubly so for the rest of the world. I’ll leave you to your bizarre parallel universe! Enjoy.

22. 22 Tim D. Jul 19th, 2005 at 3:23 am

    I don’t think the ratemyteachers website does anything but allows students to vent, be offensive, or, on the other hand, be encouraging. First, good teachers or bad don’t have the time, and some don’t even care, to visit the site. Second, the ratings are not even close to accurate because there are too few areas to come to a fair conclusion. Third, where is the proof that the website has actually improved teaching? Students add teachers without their knowledge.

    Hmmm, I wonder if a ratemydoctor or ratemylawyer site would improve healthcare. I don’t think so.

23. 23 c morgan Apr 26th, 2006 at 7:40 pm

    Freedom of speech is the only defence needed to justify this website - and the kids are only writing what they probably say in the playground and at home anyway.
    However, many comments should not be taken too seriously because a number of teachers are rated excellent by some pupils and dreadful by others - they can not both be right. Teachers, like everything else, are down to personal taste and as long as there are no long term repercussions on pupils or teachers the site will run its course, like Friends Reunited, with only a few saddos with nothing else to do.

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